Comments on: Oyster Card Privacy http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy Helping you to get the most out of modern technology and communications since 2004. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:38:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Foucault – the lot of you | twopointouch http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy/comment-page-1#comment-5783 Foucault – the lot of you | twopointouch Wed, 13 Jan 2010 05:43:30 +0000 #comment-5783 [...] RLY? UK Government agencies want/have your email, your movements and your picture already. We have entered an age when central government in the UK has access to [...] [...] RLY? UK Government agencies want/have your email, your movements and your picture already. We have entered an age when central government in the UK has access to [...]

]]> By: Xeen http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy/comment-page-1#comment-1514 Xeen Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1514 <p>Oyster doesn't provide any new information except making it easier accessable. Consider that there are 7 or 8 cameras in every bus and tube wagon that make it possible to follow you on every step. It was still ok in Oxford or Stratford (but still way more [public] security cameras than compared to e.g. Germany) but in London... oh my, I guess London has more CCTVs than inhabitants. Although it was funny at times, when there were two CCTVs to surveillance 1m² because the building was shaped like this:<br />|<br />|_<br />   |____ </p><p>It was relieving when I got home again, although it gets worse in Germany as well. <br /><br />By the way, even if a terrorist used this card, it wouldn't be of any help since it's not like there's a "terrorists exit here" station. What I find more concerning is that police investigations become more and more like "let's see  who possibly could be involved and lets do some investigation until one is left who then will be charged" instead of narrowing beforehand. <br />It's similar to when solving e.g. a math problem with the solutions next to it. You try to solve it, checking every step in the given solution. You're more likely to say "oh, of course, that's obvious" than without having the solution. Some applies to police - it's more likely they think things are "obvious". And of course, if you can choose between having a solution or not having one, you of course take the former. </p><p>What I don't understand is that more money is invested into preventing terrorism than making cars/traffic saver although it's more likely to die in an accident. Comparing lives/death isn't really possible, but wouldn't it be better for a single person if traffic is made saver if the "chance of unnatural death" counts? <br /></p> Oyster doesn’t provide any new information except making it easier accessable. Consider that there are 7 or 8 cameras in every bus and tube wagon that make it possible to follow you on every step. It was still ok in Oxford or Stratford (but still way more [public] security cameras than compared to e.g. Germany) but in London… oh my, I guess London has more CCTVs than inhabitants. Although it was funny at times, when there were two CCTVs to surveillance 1m² because the building was shaped like this:
|
|_
   |____

It was relieving when I got home again, although it gets worse in Germany as well.

By the way, even if a terrorist used this card, it wouldn’t be of any help since it’s not like there’s a "terrorists exit here" station. What I find more concerning is that police investigations become more and more like "let’s see  who possibly could be involved and lets do some investigation until one is left who then will be charged" instead of narrowing beforehand.
It’s similar to when solving e.g. a math problem with the solutions next to it. You try to solve it, checking every step in the given solution. You’re more likely to say "oh, of course, that’s obvious" than without having the solution. Some applies to police – it’s more likely they think things are "obvious". And of course, if you can choose between having a solution or not having one, you of course take the former.

What I don’t understand is that more money is invested into preventing terrorism than making cars/traffic saver although it’s more likely to die in an accident. Comparing lives/death isn’t really possible, but wouldn’t it be better for a single person if traffic is made saver if the "chance of unnatural death" counts?

]]> By: Khlo http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy/comment-page-1#comment-1519 Khlo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1519 <p>Interesting thoughts. Xeen: I think you probably hit the nail on the head:</p><blockquote><p>What I find more concerning is that police investigations become more and more like "let's see  who possibly could be involved and lets do some investigation until one is left who then will be charged" instead of narrowing beforehand.</p></blockquote><p>I've never really thought of it like that, but we can apply the same argument about the Oyster card to credit cards. It's possible to see all your trips abroad, all the restaurants and places you've been to around the world. Yet we've all got no problems with using one. </p> Interesting thoughts. Xeen: I think you probably hit the nail on the head:

What I find more concerning is that police investigations become more and more like "let’s see  who possibly could be involved and lets do some investigation until one is left who then will be charged" instead of narrowing beforehand.

I’ve never really thought of it like that, but we can apply the same argument about the Oyster card to credit cards. It’s possible to see all your trips abroad, all the restaurants and places you’ve been to around the world. Yet we’ve all got no problems with using one. 

]]> By: Xoligy http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy/comment-page-1#comment-1520 Xoligy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1520 Just like having an ID card will stop terrorists. Because we all know you need an ID card to buy bombs. Terrorism is just their over-used excuse for breaching privacy. Just like having an ID card will stop terrorists. Because we all know you need an ID card to buy bombs. Terrorism is just their over-used excuse for breaching privacy.

]]> By: Xeen http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy/comment-page-1#comment-1521 Xeen Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1521 <p>Yap. Germany has had unique IDs for every German since they were introduced (even during the 3rd Reich, if I remember correctly) but they didn't prevent anything. Best example is the RAF in the '70 - it wasn't even some kind of "foreign group". It took them quite some time to find those terrorists, even though he was publicly known as being a terrorist (and robbed many banks in that time, like 7+) and he had an ID-Card.</p><p>I doubt that would have been different if the ID-Card was digital and there were fingerprints or whatever saved on it (microwave, 180 watts, 2 seconds anyone?) <br /></p> Yap. Germany has had unique IDs for every German since they were introduced (even during the 3rd Reich, if I remember correctly) but they didn’t prevent anything. Best example is the RAF in the ’70 – it wasn’t even some kind of "foreign group". It took them quite some time to find those terrorists, even though he was publicly known as being a terrorist (and robbed many banks in that time, like 7+) and he had an ID-Card.

I doubt that would have been different if the ID-Card was digital and there were fingerprints or whatever saved on it (microwave, 180 watts, 2 seconds anyone?)

]]> By: Anthony http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/2303-Oyster-Card-Privacy/comment-page-1#comment-2075 Anthony Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-2075 How can we trust the goverment with the information they need for an ID card when they cannot look after the information they have on us now !!!! How can we trust the goverment with the information they need for an ID card when they cannot look after the information they have on us now !!!!

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